neanderthals
Nov. 21st, 2006 03:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
zaichikarkyI've been really stressed lately because I've been spending all my time writing this stupid book report on the Neanderthals. I loved the book and I have a ton of ideas. Problem is I have way too many and I can't seem to stick with the page limit(7 pages). I spent literally all of yesterday, some of Sunday, and probably the rest of today writing this thing. I always fail these book reports, so this time I need to do well on it since it's worth like 40% of my grade. I also have senioritis. Other than that Neanderthal book, I haven't been doing any readings. Since I am obsessed with Neanderthals, I think I'll share what I learned/remembered from the book and my class.
*We did *not* evolve from the Neanderthals, contrary to popular belief. This is what scientists once thought, but we actually came from Africa in waves. Homo heildelbergenesis(much easier for me to write than pronounce) is our common ancestor with the Neanderthals. Homo h. died out abou 500,000 years ago... it produced two lines(Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis). It's confusing, but just remember that we are related to Neanderthals and they're our closest dead relatives, however they are not our direct relative(in the sense that we evolved from them).
*I believe the first skeleton was discovered in about 1846 in Neander valley. I forgot which country that was, it might have been Switzerland or something, about 12 years later scientists named them Homo neanderthalensis and claimed they were a distinct species.
* Neanderthals became extinct about 25,000 yrs ago. The dates are kinda inconclusive, before the date was about 30,000 yrs ago, but recently we found some kind of evidence saying they died later.
*We still don't know quite why they got extinct, but the general idea is that we encroached upon their territory and they couldn't compete with us. Also, they prefered and were built for living in cold conditions, after the Ice Age was ending and their habitat was warming up, it was hard for them to adapt to the warmer condtions
* they did have bigger brains than us(they max out at about 1700 cc with about 1500-1600 cc being the average), however we still think that they were "less intelligent" than us overall because of lack of "cultural markers". I tend to disagree, but these are the scientists talking. The Neanderthals are proven to have burried their dead, used the same tools as us, taken care of thier sick, etc. They did *not* do cave paintings, although we can't completely prove this. I think they were very intelligent, just in different ways than us
*Clan of the Cavebear is one of my favorite books and it talks about a young human girl living with a tribe of Neanderthals. The woman who wrote this book, Jean Auel, created a sign/speaking language that was completely functional and comparable to human language. However, scientists still don't know whether the Neanderthals spoke or just "grunted". They found some kind of bone in the Neanderthal skeletons around their voicebox that is supposed to mean the species has language capabilities, but whether the Neanderthals used language is a different story. The Neanderthal expert thinks they didn't because "they didn't have use for it" and they weren't really an adaptive species, but I disagree with him.
*They lived primarily in Europe,and evolved in Europe. They did not go past the middle east. They were built for cold climates and liked it in Europe because it was cold there and they didn't have to compete with a lot of predators.
*Here's some anatomy: they were built "robust", this means that they were short and stocky(sp?). They had shorter arms and legs than us. They had large noses with large nasal cavities that helped protect their brains from wind. They had large brow ridges which served no purpose. Also, they had no chins. They had larger bones overal, and their pelvic openings were larger. We think that females might have been in gestation for over a year because neanderthal infants were more developed than us when they came out.
*Whether or not they intereacted with humans is inconclusive. I for one am a huge advocate that they in fact did. I mean, both species lived in the same areas, except humans came to Europe much later. They did coexist in the Middle East, of course we never know if they had peaceful relations or tried to stay away from each other. There are skeletons in the middle east that we think might be hybrids, but we're not sure, the neanderthal finds in the middle east look more human in many ways(taller, less brow ridges, etc)
Ok I have to go back to work now... So I'll write later about other stuff : ).
*We did *not* evolve from the Neanderthals, contrary to popular belief. This is what scientists once thought, but we actually came from Africa in waves. Homo heildelbergenesis(much easier for me to write than pronounce) is our common ancestor with the Neanderthals. Homo h. died out abou 500,000 years ago... it produced two lines(Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis). It's confusing, but just remember that we are related to Neanderthals and they're our closest dead relatives, however they are not our direct relative(in the sense that we evolved from them).
*I believe the first skeleton was discovered in about 1846 in Neander valley. I forgot which country that was, it might have been Switzerland or something, about 12 years later scientists named them Homo neanderthalensis and claimed they were a distinct species.
* Neanderthals became extinct about 25,000 yrs ago. The dates are kinda inconclusive, before the date was about 30,000 yrs ago, but recently we found some kind of evidence saying they died later.
*We still don't know quite why they got extinct, but the general idea is that we encroached upon their territory and they couldn't compete with us. Also, they prefered and were built for living in cold conditions, after the Ice Age was ending and their habitat was warming up, it was hard for them to adapt to the warmer condtions
* they did have bigger brains than us(they max out at about 1700 cc with about 1500-1600 cc being the average), however we still think that they were "less intelligent" than us overall because of lack of "cultural markers". I tend to disagree, but these are the scientists talking. The Neanderthals are proven to have burried their dead, used the same tools as us, taken care of thier sick, etc. They did *not* do cave paintings, although we can't completely prove this. I think they were very intelligent, just in different ways than us
*Clan of the Cavebear is one of my favorite books and it talks about a young human girl living with a tribe of Neanderthals. The woman who wrote this book, Jean Auel, created a sign/speaking language that was completely functional and comparable to human language. However, scientists still don't know whether the Neanderthals spoke or just "grunted". They found some kind of bone in the Neanderthal skeletons around their voicebox that is supposed to mean the species has language capabilities, but whether the Neanderthals used language is a different story. The Neanderthal expert thinks they didn't because "they didn't have use for it" and they weren't really an adaptive species, but I disagree with him.
*They lived primarily in Europe,and evolved in Europe. They did not go past the middle east. They were built for cold climates and liked it in Europe because it was cold there and they didn't have to compete with a lot of predators.
*Here's some anatomy: they were built "robust", this means that they were short and stocky(sp?). They had shorter arms and legs than us. They had large noses with large nasal cavities that helped protect their brains from wind. They had large brow ridges which served no purpose. Also, they had no chins. They had larger bones overal, and their pelvic openings were larger. We think that females might have been in gestation for over a year because neanderthal infants were more developed than us when they came out.
*Whether or not they intereacted with humans is inconclusive. I for one am a huge advocate that they in fact did. I mean, both species lived in the same areas, except humans came to Europe much later. They did coexist in the Middle East, of course we never know if they had peaceful relations or tried to stay away from each other. There are skeletons in the middle east that we think might be hybrids, but we're not sure, the neanderthal finds in the middle east look more human in many ways(taller, less brow ridges, etc)
Ok I have to go back to work now... So I'll write later about other stuff : ).
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no subject
Date: 2006-11-21 10:49 pm (UTC)The Neander Valley is in Germany, I believe. Personally I think it was mainly climate change that did them in- they were wonderfully adapted to cold conditions, but as the ice caps melted huge tracks of their habitat was drowned, taking with it the megafauna they hunted. Then along come the homo sapiens with their superior weaponry and knowledge of farming, and they're driven into extinction.
One thing that's quite interesting is the theory that a small number may survive in the Ural/Hymalays. There's been reports throughout the centuries that seem to describe Neanderthals, but I can't find much information on the subject. But I love stuff like this.
What's your opinion on the crossbreeding, btw?
no subject
Date: 2006-11-22 12:45 am (UTC)I mentioned that I do believe extensively that the Neanderthals and humans interbreeded. I find that two groups of Hominids living in the same area(it's almost proven that they lived in the Middle East at the same time) had some kind of relations, sexual or not. Scientists now think that there is this gene for making our brains smaller that 70% of humans have that came from the Neanderthals. I meant to post that, but didn't have time. I'll find the article.
I think it might be to late to ask you now(I have no idea what time it is overthere) but I am desperately searching for college students to proof read my essay and help me decide which thesis to work on. I have 2 thesises right now and I can't decided between them
thesis 1: the author of the book doesn't agree that Neanderthals had a distinct culture and doesn't give them enough credit when it comes to innovation, creativity, and ingenuity(sp)
thesis 2: I disagree with the author and I think Neanderthals did in fact interact as well as interbreed.
The author is pretty clear in his view that he thinks the Neanderthals had very minimal or no contact with humans.
I'll tell you how it works out later anyway ^_^.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-22 04:32 pm (UTC)Saying that the Neanderthals are Bigfoot is, excuse my language, a load of bollocks. Last time I checked they didn't hike all the way across Asia and over the land bridge to America. Mankind didn't even manage to build boats to cross the Atlantic/Pacific until the AD years (although there's debateable evidence that the Persians/Egyptians may have done it).
The Loch Ness monster is likely to be some form of giant eel. A pleisiosaur for instance would freeze to death, being cold blooded. There is a chance it could be an undiscovered megafauna, however. The Ice Age was full of them, and since Loch Ness became cut off from the ocean at the end, it is likely that a population became trapped in the loch. What's interesting is that while it's seen as a modern phenomenon, reports go back to at least the 12th century and before. Seems highly unlikely that a hoax has been going on for so long.
There's no evidence of Neanderthal genes being part of the human genome. Neanderthal DNA is in the process of being sequenced, and so far nothing has turned up. It's always been a theory that we and them interbred, but I believe that if they did, the offspring were most likely mules. Being in the same genus does not give hybrid offspring the ability to breed (ie, mules/ligers).
Thesis 2 might be the better one, as #1 would evolve into an attack on the author and not display your own knowledge well enough. #2 gives you the chance to put forward your own evidence and argue your own point, which is always a much better option. I'd be happy to proof read, although it won't be as in depth as I'd like due to the fact we don't start hominds until the 3rd year, so it will all be from my personal knowledge of the subject.
Humans and Neanderthals likely had very little contact anyway. There was a vast amount of land out there and the food supply wouldn't support large numbers of either party. Plus, they would view each other as competition. Some team work may have arisen, such as indiviuals joining groups, but likely everyone just kept themselves to themselves.
no subject
Date: 2006-11-22 05:06 pm (UTC)It's true that the population of hominids was very small at the time, but when the humans became larger and started encroaching upon Neanderthal territory, I'd think some kind of contact was made. That article I posted down there talked about us getting some kind of brain gene from Neanderthals. It's pretty interesting ^_^. I think genetic research like that can propel some interesting new theories about Neanderthals and answer questions for us. I was thinking about the mule/LIGER thing as well and often they are born sterile, but at the same time, I wonder if our genes were so close that we'd be able to produce an offspring with the capabilities to reproduce. It's all speculation that has little merit, but it's just what I believe in... I'm sure that large interspecies mating was insignificant, but still I'm sure it happened. If that article I posted was true, though, interspecies breeding must have been more common, considering 70% of human populations nowdays have this gene. I don't know if I'll live to get all my questions answered about the Neanderthals, but I hope the research continues!
no subject
Date: 2006-11-22 12:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-22 01:09 am (UTC)http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2006-11-07T230707Z_01_N07452514_RTRUKOC_0_US-SCIENCE-NEANDERTHALS.xml